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That should be a big problem, but in practice just doesn't seem to be. It's one of the first questions people ask. I've certainly heard Doppler distortion off full range drivers, but not the big coax. It's surprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekstar
The classic implementation of this idea was the Tannoy Dual Concentric, which had far more drastic problems than doppler off the cone, such as a muddy woofer that would never match up with the tweeter. Tried many time with those things--reds, blacks, silvers-- but they were not for me.
I have a pr of modern B&C 12" coaxes set up with a "horn cone" loaded compression driver which are actually quite good. No doppler to my ear.
I guess it all depends on the xmax of the woofer and drive level. Presumably, cone interference would become evident at some excursion level...but a couple beers might fix that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by juniper
not likely, but just in case -
copy + paste =
http://www.meta-gizmo.net/tri/images/gizmoabducted.jpg
WHAT WEIGHS FIFTY POUNDS EACH, IS EIGHTEEN INCHES WIDE, 16 OHMS, 108 dB EFFICIENT, ALNICO, AND DUAL CONCENTRIC?
As you know from my insistent ranting, I believe that the Alex Garner designed, Tannoy dual concentric Alcomax driver is one of the rare works of audio arts. I have cajoled all of you into considering the unique beauty of "classic" dual concentric alnico drivers, and many have called me "The Concentric Crusader." Surf this fantasy with me: We walk into a shop called Concentric and Sons, which caters to the exclusive custom made dual concentric audiomaniac trade. All of its products are custom made, like a Holland and Holland shotgun. A distinguished gentlemen looking like Robert Grunberg, wearing a white linen coat with very large bat-like ears, attends to our needs. He offers us, like your typical American audio dealer, a fine cigar and vintage French brandy as we discuss our musical taste. We are measured, we write out a check for $9K, and we are told to come back in six months, when our custom made drivers will be ready. Get the trip? My fellow dudes do you know the feeling when you have just encountered a gizmo of immense coolosity...like a supercharged V-10 Dodge Viper motor? Or when your tailor makes a custom-made suit for you? Or you commission your design for a 48’ wooden sailboat. That is the Sunlight trip. Sunlight Engineering’s 308 driver, designed by Grunberg, has redefined the concrescence of driver coolosity...even with its flaws. In a flawless world there is no art.... which is why the aliens come to earth.
The Sunlight Engineering 308 (The picture is from the Korean Magazine Audio plus Music) exists because Robert Grunberg has pushed the boundary of the "classic American speakers arts" into the next galactic space/time continuum. At $9,000 per pair without cabinets these drivers exist to satisfy the artistic cravings of some very intense triodemaniacs...these speakers were created specifically for the ultra-triodmaniacs of Japan and Korea, and that means horns.
This driver is to speakers what single ended triodes are to amplifiers...they both make no sense and they both make the most sublime and unexplainable magic. What could be more ridiculous than an eighteen-inch paper cone for midrange accuracy? So let me address their obvious flaws so we can concentrate on what they do that no other driver I have ever encountered can do. This driver is designed for a horn cabinet, which means ultra-huge...almost twice the size of the Westminster Royals, and quite frankly I don’t have the courage, time or money to build them, though you can order custom made horn cabinets, from my favorite Japanese horn salon, UTOPIA INSTRUMENT. I put them into sealed enclosures so I will miss the magic low frequency wave front that only horns can create. The woofer crosses over to the midrange/tweeter horn at 500 cycles, and because of the design of the concentric midrange/tweeter driver forget the top octave. I am therefor giving up the bottom octave and the upper most harmonics, so that King Tone can manifest His harmonic wholeosity in the mid section with a dynamism that is totally unique.
When it comes to critical evaluation I listen to master tapes (Mark Conese and I make with his custom tweaked Ampex tube tape recorder, modified RCA ribbon makes with silver Alpha-Core microphone cable)...of Marco, a great jazz pianist playing the in house concert grand Steinway. This is the only way to discover the true nature of loudspeakers because we have eliminated all of the distortion and compression of vinyl and digital. The output of the Ampex goes directly into the input of the tube crossover, which then feeds the amplifiers.
I thought I couldn’t get any higher than my Tannoy Alcomax high, and then I experienced these monsters of audio audacity and realized once again that a spiritual mature man is a polygamist. It takes two people to move around this driver, and you are paying for 30 pounds of solid gold magnets. What you will experience here is a degree of aliveness and harmonic whole-osity that I never knew existed on earth… and I was right, because this is the first time such a driver has appeared. This is the driver that has completely redefined the dual concentric art. This is young David, standing up against Tannoy Goliath. But of course these drivers are not something you buy in a store, and according to Grunberg, he can only make twenty pairs a year. Fear not, because Grunberg is making a soon to be available ten inch and fifteen version of this driver that just may be the answer to unlocking your triode demons.... all 100dB efficient, 16 ohm, alnico, dual concentric! Only you know how long I have dreamed this dream, and now it is coming true. Remember: without alnico you can’t experience King Tone!
Let me make this clear about Robert; he doesn’t design loudspeakers, he designs the raw driver, i.e., the frame, the magnet structure...he is into the subatomicosity of it all. There are only a couple of earthlings that have reached this level of mastery. It is a total delight to listen to Robert rant and rave about magnetic materials, and other alien driver gibberish.
I believe these drivers may be the ultimate space ship for exploring the Nth dimension of Music HyperSpace; the existential shadows of single-ended triodes. These are simple two way speakers with absolutely the right impedance. They are ultra high efficiency....108 dB. They have what appears to be unlimited dynamics. They have the right magnets, and they can demonstrate the benefits of ultra simple circuits because of their dual concentric harmonic whole-osity that is impossible to achieve in multi-driver designs. Of course these are also the perfect driver for a 2A3, 45, 50 or 10Y circuit, and soon I will report on how this driver works with these flea-powered tubes.
Dr. Gizmo abducted!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geekstar
There would be at least half a million dollars of gear in those photos....
I got to see those very Sunlight drivers once in the warehouse of another audio-nut -- unfortunately, I never heard them. I believe they have since passed into the hands of an Audio Asylum member. I did get to see the specs, however, and the woofer section would only make sense in an OB, quite under-damped, iirc. Gizmo used them mounted in a pair of doors.
Sounds more like a paid ad than a review...
"Robert Grunberg has pushed the boundary of the "classic American speakers arts" into the next galactic space/time continuum."
Harvey was definitely a one-of-a-kind and tended towards hyperbole, for sure. But he also had many practical insights and was a pleasure to read and talk to -- very much missed.
The Original and True - Triode Guild?